top of page
  • Writer's picturerahul sriskanthan

Round Table : How Can Club Culture thrive in a Socially Distanced World

Updated: Feb 6, 2021




Check out the Bramble - online virtual party - which is also discussed in our podcast.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

So, welcome to the artist life hack podcast. It's Rahul here in Amsterdam. And I'm here today with Job Reuten who's a kind of a master of all trades a painter, creates murals, parties, installations, and also Xuan Sinden from London, Hackney, who is a multimedia artist who creates installations and works with Sense collective in Hackney. And one thing, which we're focusing on today is, is club culture in the lockdown, because obviously, the lockdown has seriously affected any kind of industry or business where people gather. And that has had a huge impact on artists who work with installations and club culture in general. And that's what we're here to discuss how to how to make it work for artists, how to make it work for people who want those kinds of experiences, as we kind of evolve towards a new normal.


But before I get involved in that, I just wanted to ask either either of you, how did you get to where you are? And why do you do what you do? How did you get involved in it?


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

When I was a kid already, I knew that I like to have a life with a lot of excitement and fun stuff. And I don't want to be calm, like the the grown up there, or the grown up there. Actually, I managed to do that and still do that. And I see a lot of people will get older, they will stop dreaming about making things with a group, everybody wants to do everything by themselves. I just keep on dreaming. I don't stop with it. Just to play a little bit like provocations, showing people, at school to have a nail polish or, or wear a dress or do all that, and nobody's gonna fuck with you. Because you can also show it from another from another way I like very much do that. So for example, on school, whenever somebody who gets teased, who falls on the grounds, I will drop myself on the ground to get your attention away like that. And like that we have entertainment.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

So Xuan, what about you?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artist, Hackney, London

Well, I think it's the freedom that comes with art and the expressiveness. I wasn't bad academically, but when it came to a time to choose what I'd like to do, I feel like art called me more than anything else. It was knowing I would be free to explore what I wanted to explore within the means of the subject or the topic I'm choosing. It's just that freedom, and that sense of having your own your own sort of flow, your own choices and kind of being in control of your reality.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

You have always been in the city.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

I have Yeah,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Then you are lucky, because most places where you want to become artists, when you are a kid, they will always say, you're not going to make money. Don't do it, don't go for it. They always tried to do that. But I had parents and people around me who would just say do it. So from childhood I have never had that struggle.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

My mother was very supportive of my artistic leanings and so was my dad and musically and, I have a very musical family. So I think it's always been something that's around me. So I was free to make that choice.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Whereas if you didn't have to hold it up, it was the same thing. So that's also a thing to tell to other people who don't have that choice so much to just show them. I can eat dry bread, as long as I'm happy. It's for me more important than having the dollars on the bank.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

The last weekend before the lockdown. I was visiting friends in London. We knew it was coming. It was someone's birthday. We thought, we need to go clubbing, because it was the very last weekend, the clubs are open, and it felt like everyone was kind of cutting loose. What I love about club culture is that it creates a different kind of social space, it allows people to connect on a different kind of level


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, yeah, brings people together


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Very important what you say, because I'm organizing 25 years parties every year. And we had also we organized parties the last day, but by accident, because was planned. And after that, your missing the groups of people. But then I started to go to people's houses. And I take the room with most of crap and stuff where they would never look at, and I would change that room into a little club, in people's houses. So in the basement or on the top floor, or whatever. And when you make a little club in the house, on the end of the room, you never use, and you put some disco lights into that. And even if you're just with three people that feels like wow! In New Year, you could have three guests say you can have three guests. It was the first time I was like, oh, normally you're like, I hope they come. And I was like, I hope they don't come. But what we did was we made one club in the bathroom, that was for three people, one in the basement that was three people and one on the top floor. And so we have three clubs in the house, and we create the clubs anywhere and everywhere.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

At a show recently they built a tiny box, essentially. And then they just had a DJ, play music.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Exactly. That's a lot of fun.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

And I like what you're saying about using un-used, semi abandoned spaces. When I began making my installations, I didn't have much access to spaces. So what I do is I'd go outside and rent a generator for 10 pounds, and set up my installations outside and play music really loud and invite as many people as I want. So we had these sort of really rough and ready gorilla exhibitions outside in London spaces, people would walk by and join in.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Everybody is open for that. But all you can build in any house and hanging out you can build a little club. What I think about the COVID time, it's a little bit like hitchhiking when you go hitchhiking, you're not enjoying it during the hitchhiking, because cars just pass and that and takes time. But when you arrive? Then you're like, wow, that was pretty cool. COVID is the same? Because actually, when you're in the middle of it, you're like, Jesus, oh, no, no, no. But when you think back that you were able to walk in the center of the city with no people, that you know, suddenly know your neighbors. When you look back, you only see the good things about it.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

COVID is the time for learning, everyone's been forced to internalize and anyone anyone thinking about internalizing, that's learning about yourself. And a lot of people have learned about themselves and kind of realize what they really want to do and what is important in their lives. Because, it's not worth just, worrying about things. Some people have been at home a lot more and realize, why am I going to work?


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

There's also another kind of weird thing that's happening with Corona and COVID,. Sometimes economists talk about a V shaped recovery or W shaped recovery, or U shaped recovery, they're talking now about a K shape recovery, like a K lying on its back, because the stock market in most countries has never been higher. The top companies in the world have never made more money. There are lots of businesses that are working pretty well. Some of the gallery owners that I know are doing okay, because people are buying physical art. But anyone who is in a business, which is service oriented, if you run a bar or cafe, or restaurant or club, then your in a different position because you're not shipping digital products and not shipping physical products. Netflix, Amazon, they're fine! So there's a real question about how to create a survivable business model moving Looking forward to the new normal,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

The most basic places now is like the supermarkets. They will not tell you on the news if there was a COVID incident in the supermarket, because then they would have to close. So it's a weird situation where they have where they shut up about the supermarket's


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Xuan you were looking at some interesting online platforms, because a lot of clubbing has gone online, they've been new ways for people to connect to each other online. Right? That's something you've been looking at?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

It's a tricky position for me because, like you were saying, club culture brings people together. And that being in the same room and experiencing people physically,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Especially touching...


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

It's what interlocks the fabric of society, it's what brings everyone together. It is going to be a struggle to find the new ways of doing things. But yeah, we're working with interesting platforms like Bramble, an online chat room. And it's like a video game where you run around with your avatar. And you could run up to someone and you chat. And then your screen comes up, you can chat to them and share information and whatnot. And then in different rooms, they have screening rooms, and they can have DJs playing and stuff like that. Which we found that...


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

How big are you going to see the people?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Well, yeah, exactly. Just like small.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, like that. We have a party, the 20th, a surprise party for a friend in Norway of mine, he is an architect, interior architect, we are always dreaming about partying digitally. So now we're gonna do it, we have three beamers. We're buying a small, long which projects up the wall and doesn't make any shadow. His house in Norway, he is going to have three screens, one with his Istanbul one with Amsterdam and one with the place in Norway, I believe.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Okay.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

And he's going to see us the same way as he is around him.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Oh, that's cool. So basically, kind of like a virtual party, where you've got people in three different countries,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

And you can talk to them, like you're gonna hear it like this. Yeah, the only thing is, when I don't have the same wine in my fridge as he has, that's the only difference. But that's fine.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

That makes me think of the show, called "Bring Your Own Beamer." Yeah, we've been doing all over.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Hand beamers?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This Bramble thing sounds exciting, but we haven't used it yet. So we're just looking forward to the outcome and seeing how it goes. And also just connecting with people all over the world. And it gives people an opportunity to connect with our work, and the artists that we're bringing to the event and which we wouldn't have had before. So we just have to look at the positives in how we're connecting to a broader spectrum right now. We'll send you the link, and please do join us on the fifth of February,


We have one live stream happening. And that will be a collective called the loose association of cinema and sound. And we do live scores with live visuals. So we experiment with different synths and different sounds and vocals in different instruments. We usually have a rough theme or topic. And this time, we're doing the Joker. Bramble are based in New York and Toronto, they started a sort of indoor event platform where people would put on events in their houses, it's called Artery, and that blew up, I think, probably throughout the lockdown. Then they recently found a new initiative, which was Bramble. It'll be interesting to go on it together actually, at some point, I think I have a link that we could use.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

I had a look at it. It sounds good.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I would like I like to add a little list for everybody who joins. So it's not only the screen you see, but go to the supermarket first and you order this wine and this snack,


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Then we'll return to the party.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

It's always nice to add more. Put your temperature at 20 degrees.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

I like that, I like that that!


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

I was at IDFA. Which is the documentary festival Amsterdam. They had a whole multimedia selection section. There's all VR with VR installations by artists where your putting on your Oculus Rift equivalent, and you're entering this world. And also if you look at things like Fortnight, the online gaming, and there's Roblox, and what's the third one?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Among us?


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Yeah, this idea that people are interacting, albeit in Fortnight, their killing each other. You're interacting in this virtual world and connecting in this virtual world. So you know, there's already that kind of playfulness online, it's just slightly controlled, slightly centralized, because the code is controlled by big businesses, as opposed to individuals, but it feels like there's a huge space.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, but we should add touching into the whole video gaming. You want to feel something.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

I know, that would be amazing.


We need winds and pushing people. This is what people missed. That's why a lot of kids do suicide now. Because they get cut off very quick, because they are learning right now.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

They say that baby, do skin to skin with them, you know, so they have that physical connection, and kind of create this relationship between you physically. And I was reading an essay called "The Eyes of the Skin," which say that every single sense is the development of touch. So our eyes are just an extension of our feelers. So everything begins with our sense of touching.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, that's one of the things you can do with the kids already when they're young, because they have language very quick. So you start teaching them hand language. So every time you give them food, or anything, make them move with it. And you will see, in half a year, you can have conversations, with your kid already way before people who are just going for words. A lot of kids getting angry when they're doing their best so much to say the word or the thing, but you don't understand them because they still say bah, bah, vah, vah. But when you move your hands like this, and say "dog," that really works. It's fun.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

That makes sense. That sounds great.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I was cycling home last week, I had some ketamine and my brain was going loose from my body. And I had to cycle home. Yeah. And on the bike, my brain was saying, this is not going very well. But my body was, don't you worry. And so my whole body became my brain. My body said to me here, I bring you home, no problem.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Muscle memory, isn't it, kicking in.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

The thing you heard you both talk about a little bit is outdoor solutions because if you're dealing with a world in which you need to socially distance and also where especially indoor activity is high risk, then being able to reclaim public space. Like you were talking about getting a barge and just sailing it down the canals with a projector.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, with with projecting you can do very nice. For example, if you have a dancer with just black around, you would you project it from the from a boat or from a car on the sidewalk. You will you will see that just the dancer.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

If they are in white, then you can see them for what they are wearing.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Exactly would you say about the Beamer festival when everybody brings their own Beamer


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Right in the middle of lockdown in London, I was walking through a park and I saw this big group of people and I said, What's going on? I got a bit closer and I just see this DJ, everyone had their own headphones on, and they were just partying, they're like come and join us, pay fiver donation fee. I just saw it as a great initiative and people are just using their initiative.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Here they do it on bicycles, groups of bicycles with music, moving...


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

The idea, you can just tap out and just have a conversation and you know, the buzz over there and it's quite freeing and it brings back the element of a full festival,


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Your still connecting to people physically seeing how someone else responds to the same music as you. It gets you to let loose a little bit more. You know what I mean? A lot of it's about just being yourself.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah. And also because you think you're doing something like naughty.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

That's part of what makes partying amazing, to be honest, as well. And yeah,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Let's say for drugs.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

In London, it's been a big downhill battle in the club scene. I mean, a few amazing clubs have opened up like Fold, but there's been a big curfew for 10pm for a lot of clubs in East London. It's been a reoccurring theme for a long time, how the London club scene is being manhandled and controlled and kind of pushed aside, especially during COVID. It's gotten worse


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Are the clubs still open in London? I thought, they were closed?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

No, they have haven't been for a while. There aren't many opportunities for social interaction. And this is already been happening before. So it's just almost like COVID kind of reestablished this crackdown on club life. But London itself has always been somewhere that illegal parties and parties in these warehouses, and smaller venues which, like you were saying, brings back that excitement and exciting element. So a lot of these illegal parties have been carrying on. And I think to be honest, the party will never die. I feel you can't stop people from partying and the more London crackdown, the more people will fight back.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I see it as a Bow being drawn, another two weeks, another two weeks, another two weeks, now, we're almost there. You shoot that arrow off and it's gonna be like the roaring 20s.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

They say after the Spanish Flu, everyone just went nuts!


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Weimar Germany, for example!


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Ready for it?


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Did you watch Steve McQueen, Small Axe series on TV at all?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, I watched "Mangrove."


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Did you watch "Lovers Rock?"


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

No, I didn't


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

You have to watch that. That's essentially about a particular type of music. And like, basically a house party. The whole show is just about house party, again, it speaks to the fact that this is going to happen eventually. Right now I don't think it makes sense. I mean, the situation Ireland was that the Irish had some of the lowest transmission rates forever. So they opened up for Christmas, and then things just went through the roof.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I remember when, when there was the financial financial crisis. Then everybody had less money but nobody was saving on parties. Yeah, at the parties were like boom, that moment. People have nothing, they want to do that.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Connect with each other. It brings forward what's real, and what's important again, but


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

For me, there's two elements to clubs. The first element is connecting with other people. Now, the other element is kind of connecting to yourself. There's lots of installations, I often take my kids to, like, you know, take my 13 year old daughter to an installation, and we'll just sit there and we'll just watch it,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Like the Amsterdam light festival and things like that.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Exactly. We had one of the Westergas fabric and then, like an industrial space, or in France, there was an old Submarine warehouse with an installation in it.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Here, with a New Year's party, we were not allowed to do fireworks, and normally Amsterdam is like extreme fireworks. But I had laser lights, disco lights, put everything on the street, and a big speaker with just the sound of fireworks from the year before. And it was working, like everybody was loving it. Just to the sound was enough with the lights.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Found a loophole


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

On the installation side has there been any kind of innovation because that's something you could socially distance. People can wander through while maintaining a little bit of distance and you can also do it outdoors.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

We could make a date and we call it, for example, the, the disco light date. So instead of everybody clapping for the nurses, and the doctors, we will say, 11 o'clock then the night everybody was lasers and lights and everything


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Put the lights on your balcony!


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Open your window just create a live show.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

That's awesome!


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

For example, when I was younger, we did this, instead of making graffiti. We went to parks and on streets, we made the the streetlights, we give them a color, like just a filter. So then you have for months of just nice color light on the street, this is very cool.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Color is important for our physiology state.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

That and dancing. Yeah. What about us


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

What about you Xuan, what kind of installations?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

installations? I mean, that's what we're trying to do at, "Sense" where we bring local artists that we know from our environment, we want things to be able to be experienced in their environment, rather than having to go to West End, the expensive side of London, go to this gallery and walk around. And now we have to book in galleries as well. It sounds like it's a lot stricter in London than it is over in Amsterdam.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

It's pretty strict here as well.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Outdoor installations. It's a great idea, but it needs a lot of funding, unless you're doing it all on your own back but finding the right funder, or finding the right gallery that would be able to do so, I guess that's where galleries needs to be looking now. Galeries need to be looking to funding more outside and external events. I mean, it's something I've always dreamed of. I've always loved Daniel Buren and these simple sort of things.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Some people earn a lot of money. Now during the COVID, for example, the Supermarkets or Netflix, or all those kind of people, but they're not sharing nothing with the with the little shops,


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

But the trick is to figure out how to get access to that to that money. So for example, if you can ship digital content like Netflix, you can actually design something you can sell to someone, then you can begin to tap into the fact people want to experience different things at home. Or like it like Amazon, if you can ship a physical product. Job do you wnat to show him that installation that you made in the box.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I can show you a little box.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

This is amazing. Your going to love this.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

It's a little club.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

So just for the point of view of the podcast, it's like a shoe box.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

You have to turn it on..


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Yeah. That is it. Maybe a bit lower.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Lovely.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Yeah, you see that? That's kind of amazing, right? Yeah.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, I have many boxes like that. Smaller clubs, Corona clubs. They call it thet 2020 bar. Always Empty!!!.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah. So


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

there's this things you can learn from Netflix's things you can learn from Amazon. Shipping, digital content, shipping, shipping, physical products and also there's things you can learn from businesses that effectively socially distance,


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

There was an artist who was selling websites before called Rafaël Rozendaal. He was selling a whole website as a piece of art, which I found quite smart. Going back to your question about installations. I guess London's quite a capitalist city. If you walk around the West End, you see lots of funded installations. But they're only in that area. So it's almost like these, these business rooms, and the businessmen are walking by and they don't, they don't really,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

They don't even see it. But many people don't look around


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

There is a shame this funding isn't being shared. Where the art is more prevalent, for example areas like Hackney Wick is a really dense community of artists, which is changing a lot at the moment because of gentrification. So loads of flats have been built. There's always a big battle between the money grabbers and this creative sort of realm. It's also


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

It's also the mindset, the money grabbers, they don't have the same mindset. So they don't care about having fun. Rich people, they are saving money to do what I do. You know what I mean? They're gonna do what I do in their holiday. They buy it, but you can also create it, to be rich, if you make good food and your good house around you.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Being rich is a state of mind, I guess,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, and and we have to also create new money, not just the bitcoins, we have to be more creative about what you can pay somebody with. It can also be like painting a wall or making a dish. We have to do that more. Sharing.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Well, that that speaks to creating installations inside people's houses. So you find someone who wants a club. Then your beginning to jump between interior design, and installations, but you're doing installations inside people's house. Yeah,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

For example, my company is called "What is happening here." And what I do is actually always the opposite. So you all if you want to reach something, you approach it with the opposite way as what you expect to do. If I'm in a poor place, that's the place where I'm going to look make it look very exclusive, and an exclusive place, I make it a little bit more trashy. So if I go to organize a hardcore party for hardcore people, I will put a porcelain vase in the middle of the door opening, the owner will say, Oh, goodness, that's gonna crash. But actually, what's gonna happen to like the hearts of people who already popped the pill, they're going to walk so slowly and intense around that vase, that when they are inside, they're all going to be very calm. And then when you organize it for people who are always very calm, you make for example, around the dance floor a boxing ring. When they go inside, they're going to be wild, is you can you can, you can do everything everybody do the other way as long as you want.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

The grass is greener on the other side.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

We have to, we have to get people doing this. More performances, making a light show. I would like to make a movie with you, for example, you have a drawing, and I draw a little bit, I stop, and then you finish a little bit of the drawing. You give it back a little bit. Let's try to make a short movie of 10 minutes. You shoot like two, three minutes. You send it to me, I shoot two, three minutes on my reaction. I send it back, let's send it back two or three times to each other by


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Continuing with the from where we left off.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, you think like, okay, but he's going far now! Why is the guy naked suddenly? You can solve that problem!


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, like a continuous story.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, let's do that.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Let's do it!


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Let's invite everybody to do that with each other, send each other half finished movies. And we project them on the walls and on the when it's smoggy outside, on the clouds and just on the street.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, another great way to connect. There are many ways.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

The other thing that I've seen increasing online, people live streaming, especially DJs, with physical records at their turntables, just throwing it down.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

That happens a lot.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

There's places you can go in a particular time of today and you just get this live stream stuff. And also what I'm seeing is artists kind of more active on Instagram, and you've also got Instagram streaming as well. So there's other opportunities as well to connect to people, right. And also the great, the great thing about Instagram and Facebook is there's also opportunities to generate revenue. If you can get a good following that then there's also an opportunity to find other ways to monetize that. Is that is that something you've seen in London Xuan?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, definitely. Loads of people just on the streets even not even interested in their homes. I've seen people live streaming from from from a bus stop. It's accessible. It's all in your hands. So I think it's a great thing. The young people are more connected making videos on Tiktok.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah that I like, they do the little dances. Nice things.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

But then it does come to a point where everyone's doing the same thing. And it just becomes a bit boring. For me personally, and Instagram as well. I've never been great at posting things and being active to my followers. And I kind of find it a whole nother world that I haven't really grasped fully.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

It's existing very short, this time of so probably 10 years into, it was just like an exercise for what's next.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

I think it evolves because I think it has value, it kind of allows you to create, I kind of used the word brand, and its broader sense, but it allows people to get a sense of what you're about.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, definitely


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

A sense of your aesthetics, and also, it allows you to communicate to people in a way that's unfiltered.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

There's also a lot of people, the followers who are like, really going to just imitate anything they see. So it's also killing?


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Well, there's different types of people, there's people who have products. There's people who are just predictable and boring. Then you have people who really do stuff, that is unusual, every single post is different.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

A lot of artists post what their interests are, they walk down the street and post a little photo of the curb or something quite quirky and different. It's quite nice to have that. I mean, I agree with both of you on that. Because, Instagram worries me a lot but some people just like drawing in their house and for once, they would have an opportunity to show their work to the world. They might be shyer people who don't like going to parties and don't like meeting people and stuff, but at least they have an opportunity to get their work seen.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

And they suddenly dance, and they have never danced before.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

The beautiful thing is that, what people are really interested in is not really art. It's the artists. So very often, you'll go to installation, because you're not necessarily passionate about the installation, but you're really curious about what this particular artist has put together. And the beautiful thing about Instagram is it's a way to let people behind the scenes very easily. You can show yourself setting up a particular show, or you can show the creative process, or you can show the early versions and people respond to that. You can test ideas,


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

It's a skill in itself. You just have to be active on your phone and you have to constantly be ready to present it and sometimes that can take away from the authenticity of life, maybe.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, and they make so many pictures that when they come home and they look at the picture, they're like, oh, was I there. I see all of those people who are really grumpy with their family. But then the photo moments comes, and then they hug and smile. They have their moment of touching. If I'm taking the photo I always pretend the camera doesn't work so they keep longer like this. Sometimes I pretend I'm making a picture, I'm not going to make the picture. doesn't work. It doesn't work. A little closer, a little closer there. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, we have to tickle the people, as the artist.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

I do like the accessibility of Instagrams live streams. That is a really good thing. And you know, anyone can use it. My, my nephew's making stop motion animations on his iPad. So there's so many ways that these technologies can be used,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Because, when you're home, what can you do else?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, half of my work is technology based so you know without a computer a lot of my work wouldn't have been created and realized the way it has.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Even if you put put aside Instagram or Facebook, or Bramble, the point is all of these online platforms that are evolving. Like you said, we don't know what's going to be there in two years, three years time, but a lot of these things may provide different types of opportunities.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, and Instagram and I think Facebook was like, they were they were first babies, then, small kids, and now they're growing up.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Facebook really put its foot down into the whole technology, social media thing, because it started off so small. And now my mom's using Facebook, connecting with friends that she hasn't spoken to for years. And as well as my nephew, for example. So the reach is a big audience.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

We all get smarter and smarter.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Yeah, I see the children of this generation, and you think, their computers and phones, dumb them down, which I guess in some cases they can do, but then the amount of information they take in every day.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

It's so much more than we did. Some very simple movies so, so simple to explain something that even I like, Oh, I'm watching the movie. I'm like, Oh, fuck, now, I understand this.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

I think they are learning at a faster rate these children. I grew up without internet. And then when I got when I was about 12, they started to introduce computers into the schooling systems, and into people's homes. I look at people that always had phones and see their experiences as completely different thing than I had, because I had those 12 years of just running around.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, and they get school lessons on the computer, and the fingers go very fast already over the screen.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

I'm judging from the children that I've worked with in schools and my nephews, I think they are getting smarter. We are evolving, positively. And that's very cool.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I think. Because if you're very smart, you know, also that you just want to do good in the end?


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

On that very, very, very optimistic and positive note. That's kind of the way that I hope the world will evolve as well. My hope is that technology will be a force to bring people together. You see what's happened in the US recently (Capitol Riot). And that's the opposite of what most people want. That's the beautiful thing about art. Because art, art invites you to reflect on things in a similar way. And club culture is all about that. It brings people together who may have completely different backgrounds, but they synchronize around the music and the lights and the beat and the rhythm.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, it's very difficult to understand what is art, but art is exactly for everybody something else, because everybody can choose for themselves. What is their art? What they think is art?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

I agree,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

It's not art because it's in the museum or because many people thought that was art. It can be really, really anything.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

I'm run out of things to ask you guys. I think we've gone through what we do what you're up to all these trends in Amsterdam, and London and all different solutions. We've looked at Instagram, we've looked at Facebook, I think there is a sense that there are opportunities online, but nothing kind of really beats getting back to the old normal although I don't know when that's gonna happen.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

No, no, no, no, no. I don't hope the old normal comes back because at the end of the old normal, it was too much. Everybody just like no, look at me. Look at me. I'm the best. Yeah, I just went to Mexico. Oh, yeah. So I think if we can influence the creation of the new normal as artists, let's make it a little better than before.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

We have an important job at this time. I think


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

So let me let me finish with this final final question, because that's a really beautiful way of framing it. What would you like the new normal to be like?


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I want more fountains, I want more freshwater with fish and animals even in the canals here, I want just a clean and hot and nice and sexy and, you know


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

As an artist what do you want for your art,


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I want more fun, architecture is almost like, if people live goods, there's going to be no war. So if you go outside and there's a little fountain in a park in a tree, there's a difference. And if you come out of a big building with all like the same windows,


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

So what you're saying is the whole city should be an installation.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

The whole city an installation.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

A natural installation. I agree. I mean, for nature, definitely. I have started gardening in the lockdown, and now have come a year into being a professional gardener.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

I do a lot with the pollinators. So we are making money with beehives on all the big buildings in Amsterdam we made out to make nature on the roof. We do green stuff. I think we have to talk again.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

That would be great. Yeah. I was wondering, have you heard of the "Art Ship of Fools?"


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

No.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, It's next to the Chinese boat. Right there was another boat. And that's like ship of fools. You can eat and drink and it looks crazy. And the people there. It's all like, cool.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

We've been planning a trip to Amsterdam for quite a while. So it'd be great to meet up with you both.


Job Reuten, Events Organizer, Jordaan, Amsterdam

Yeah, you're gonna see my shop and my studio and perhaps parties.


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

That would be great.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

And Xuan do you have any final thoughts?


Xuan Sinden, Multimedia Artists, Hackney, London

Um, so I think to make art I've always been a big believer in art should be free. Art is love and Art is free. But then artists need to be paid money to survive in the current state of affairs. So I guess giving more money to artists is what I would like to see. The banks and the businesses all putting more money back into the arts. More nature, more freedom, more happiness and social community events and when we can as soon as we can.


Rahul - ALH & vPatina

Big thank you to Xuan in Hackney and Job in Amsterdam. And I'm hoping that this is the start of a new conversation for both of you and all of us. So thanks again.



37 views0 comments

Comentários


bottom of page